Some drivers are very cross about 20mph speed limits.
The idea that towns and cities are cleaner, safer for walking and cycling, and generally nicer places to spend time when car speeds are reduced rankles with those who’d prefer to prioritise driving. No surprise then that some resort to flimsy arguments in favour of the status quo. Here are three:
20mph speed limits force me to drive in a lower gear
This might be the case if you’re driving a high-revving classic sports car, but if you’re behind the wheel of a modern car you’ll be able to comfortably maintain 20mph in third or even fourth gear. If you don’t believe us, then watch our our video. We drove a little city car with a one-litre engine on 20mph-limited streets to see how it performed.
20mph limits mean I’ll use more fuel
Reducing peak road speeds in areas where people live, work or play saves energy and cash. Research into typical stop/start urban traffic by Future Transport reveals fuel efficiency peaks with speed capped at 20mph. Drivers benefit from up to 10p per mile in fuel savings without trips taking longer. That’s a 30 per cent saving in urban fuel costs.
In built-up towns and villages, the key factor in fuel consumption is the number of times you accelerate back up to the speed limit after slowing down or stopping – the higher the speed limit then the greater that acceleration influences fuel consumption.
Engineering consultants at Future Transport modelled the fuel efficiency in accelerating from stopped to between 5 and 40mph. For a typical urban drive cycle – with repeated acceleration and deceleration – fuel efficiency peaks at a top speed of 15-20mph.
To drive at 20mph I need to keep my eyes focussed on the speedo and that’s not safe
If you’re unable to maintain a particular speed without your eyes glued to the speedo, driving’s not for you. One of the things learner drivers master early on is the ability to keep to a particular speed while occasionally glancing at the speedometer to check their speed hasn’t crept up. It’s a basic skill that’s assessed by examiners as part of the driving test. After all, driving steadily at 20mph is no different from maintaining 30, 40 or 70mph.
The ethical choice
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Andrew
The 20mph limit has made a profound difference (at least here in London) to cyclists. I’m also a driver and I reckon it is a small price to pay.
Barry Longden
Hi, 20mph is a good speed for cycling if you have an ebike. Unfortunately here in the UK legal ebike motors cut out at 15.5 mph and that makes cycling at 20 mph a laboured thing. And on a regular bike cycling into the wind slows you down to a crawl often. With the wind behind me I fly!
David
I’ve have no problem with 20 zones. However, in my car, a 2014 petrol Vauxhall Astra 1.6. I do need to drop the 3rd or the car will labour, especially when increasing in speed after the 20 zone ends. Dropping down is the only option.
Gaz
The 20 mile zone it in line with the smart cities and face recognition cameras that they are installing for an easy control of the masses that’s my opinion
Paul English
What about the evidence from rospa, that shows no discernable decrease in serious injuries snd a huge increase in pedestrian accidents. Pedestrians feel safer and are much more likely to wander in front of a car while onbyheir phones.
The ETA
According to data from The Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents, traffic speeds of 30-40mph, the risk of pedestrian death as a result of a collision with a vehicle is 5.5 times more likely than at speeds between 20-30mph.
Jackie
So your doing these maths on a 1000cc engine newer car what about lorries . Vans and larger cars
The ETA
What about them?
Roel Nieuwendijk
I find the 20mph limit good in estates etc but on thoroughfares the speed limit should remain 30mph. This allows a good flow for traffic and safer conditions where it matters.
Paul Lovatt Smith
Good myth-busting stuff, ETA!
David
The complaint about having to constantly watch your speedo in 20 areas always makes me think about learning to glide, where your air speed impacts how long you can stay airborne. Go just a little faster than the optimum speed, & you lose efficiency, which increases your glide angle – thus you “go downhill” more quickly. It’s something you have to learn quickly if you want to be a proficient glider pilot.
Oddly enough, I learned to glide in a very old machine whose optimum air speed was, you guessed it – 20MPH.
John
Why change too 20 when we have driven at 30 for years I agree in housing scheme and near schools yes but maim roads should stay at 30 as there are more cycles routes now and I have been driving at 20 and bikes have passed me start charging cyclist tax too use roads as they are getting best deal and as usual drivers get punished
Kath McNulty
We cyclists will also need to stick to the 20mph.
Roel Nieuwendijk
I am a keen cyclist and the 20mph speed limit is frustrating. I cycle faster then the cars but then the speed difference is not big enough for me to overtake the cars. So I am forced to slow down. and most cars don’t hold a steady 20mph so I go slower. The drivers then accelerate again and try to pass me at 2mph difference and then as soon as they pass they slow down again.
colin wright
So don’t overtake cars then. Sick to whatever the limit is. Simple
Mike Mars
You’re pathetic, complete rubbish. There’s mothing unsafe about driving 30 moh on most of these roads. It’s another misguidance attack on cars and drivers aiming to persuade them to take alternative means of transport. There’s nothing wrong with the planet that you will fix with your ridiculous ideas.
Kath McNulty
The evidence is that you stand a much better chance of surviving a crash at 20 than at 30mph. Noise level reduces by 3 decibels which apparently is significant for health. I know that 20mph feels slow but that is because we’ve been used to 30. It won’t take long for us to get used to it and life will be much better for it.😀
Terry
I find the comment re- if you don’t know what 20mph is you shouldn’t be driving absolutely ridiculous – if you can show me anyone that can accurately tell me the speed if driving at 22mph as opposed to 20mph without looking at the speedo l will eat my hat. The point is – normally 20mph zones have speed cameras that will happily give you 3 points and a large fine if traveling at 22mph so that’s why people watch their speedo.
Fiona Smart
There is a 20 limit in my road about 20%of drivers stick to it. Unfortunately during school run and holiday time 50 is the norm. I think it is very selfish for drivers to think its OK to speed but it’s not. Think of others and not of yourself. The limit has been decided and implemented for a reason. STOP the thoughtless speeding think of others and not yourself
David Evans
If you are in a stream of traffic, with another stream coming the other way, it only takes one driver in each direction to stick to 20 mph. 100%, although there may be a few frustrated drivers. We will get used to it. Who remembers the 50 mph blanket limit under the Heath government in the 1970s? Many hours of stress free motoring, and journeys took very little longer as there were no traffic jams . . .
John
So Terry what would your driving examiner say to you if you said ‘I find it difficult to keep to 20mph.’ Just before you set off on your test !
Jane
It’s about time people learned to be less selfish. I drive and cycle. 20mph is fine in towns, just a pity most people ignore the limit with rarely a consequence.
Colin
Round town driving I am lucky to average 15! 20 limit would smooth it out. Out of town needs to be 30, and we need fast motorway access.
Sarah
I regularly visit a local town where the speed limit is 20 mph, when walking and cycling I feel safer and more relaxed, I also find it more pleasant when driving, most drivers in the area do not exceed the limit.
I wish more places were 20 mph.
Colin
There is certainly good reason to have many more 20mph zones in the right places but I have 2 issues.
The first is the affect it might have on busy health workers who already struggle to get through heavy workloads during their work day. A GP out of the surgery, in a car driving to a house visit, is not working. A care worker with a list of patients to visit would potentially see less in a day. We are already chronically short of care and health workers.
My second issue concerns local geography. Here in semi-rural Wales we have large areas connected by networks of roads that link numerous small villages in relative close proximity between larger towns. Often, the spaces in between have been built upon sporadically over the years to form linear type settlements that follow the course of these roads. Over the years speed limits have dropped from 50 to 40 and in some places to 30 as house numbers have increased. There are often only houses and farms along these stretches and virtually no pedestrians. To reduce the 30 zones to 20 will mean journeys for everyone taking even longer than they do now and believe me, at the moment it’s a real chore and bore getting anywhere.
The problem highlighted in the article above regarding stop/start urban traffic and fuel consumption is not so much an issue in this scenario yet it has been talked about in Wales to reduce all 30mph limits to 20. But not all 30mph zones are in towns and cities. There has to be some common sense applied.
Cris Neagu
It’s pretty hypocritical that you call arguments against 20mph limits “flimsy”, but this entire article is one long, unbroken by reason, insult towards people who disagree with you. You really don’t have the moral or intellectual high ground here.
Darren
Just because the artcile says so doesnt make it correct. I agree, there are places for 20 miles road where its warranted. I live in London and I have to drive in zone 4 quite often. There’s literally a wide, two lane road here that has 20mph sticker on it. I have yet to see anyone aside for learners going 20 on it. Even police officers, without sirens on, do 30 there. Theres a good couple of roads like that around here where 20 is really unwarranted.
Norma
There’s a world of difference between maintaining 20 mph and other speeds.
Unless you’re driving on a straight, flat road it’s almost impossible to keep within less than 2mph of the chosen speed perpetual vigilance.
23 mph will gets points on the licence
John Long
My wife and I live in a small village in France. The next town (3,000 inhabitants) is Uzerche. Most of the town has a 30 kilometres (20 miles) per hour speed limit, but in the centre, it’s 20 kilometres (12 – 13 miles) per hour. My Citroen Xsara Picasso (1.6 litre diesel) is happy in third (steep main street) or fourth (otherwise) for the 20 mph areas, but it does well in second for the slower stretch.
The complainers just don’t know how to drive, even though they might think they do!
By the way, my average mpg is around 60 mpg (4.9 litres per hundred km). A light touch is best!
Jeremy
Hi Colin.
You live in semi-rural Wales – are you able to walk or cycle on any of the rural roads, and feel safe. I spent a week in semi-rural Devon in March. We were about a mile from the nearest town, a distance I’d happily walk. Why do you think that roads with no pavements and no streetlights, which often have blind bends and hidden foods, should have a higher limit than urban roads? The fact that there are fewer pedestrians and cyclists doesn’t help does not make the road safer for those few. What about those who live in the satellite villages who are unable to drive, who might be able to walk or cycle but, due to the way that we prioritise the convenience of motorists, are forced to rely on lifts, sporadic public transport and expensive taxis?
As for the travelling care workers and GPs. Journey time is a combination of two factors – distance and average speed. Not maximum speed – average. Maximum speed often has no impact on average speed, when it does, it is often very slight, and, believe it or not, a higher maximum speed can sometimes result in a lower average speed (e.g. you are more likely to need to come to a complete stop). This is only considering a single journey, what about the effect on the network? When it becomes easier emerge from a junction, due to lower speeds or when there is less congestion because more people have the confidence to cycle? What about the reduced load on careers cycling, when people are physically fitter for longer, due to active travel?
With regards to common sense, try telling that to the 50% of drivers who, when I’m cycling on a country road, will overtake at 60mph on a blind bend with zero thought about who or what might be coming the other way. The very reason we have speed limits is because many people are selfish and lack common sense.
Colin
Round town driving I am lucky to average 15! 20 limit would smooth it out. Out of town needs to be 30, and we need fast motorway access.
Mike Mars
Who the hell are you anyway. What gives you the right to try to enforce your ideas on the rest. Another money making scheme no doubt.
G Master
The name of the publisher gives away what the reporter’s view is going to be
20mph is the maximum speed which means one has to drive slower than this and not stay at maximum speed. Now test your gears, performance and patience. No wonder slow driving is leading to more people heading for their phones.
Phil
I have the following observations on this artical. Being forced the use a lower gear must surely be down to engine snd transmission gearing. Some modern cars are very happy to go 20mph but others clearly will not. A factor forgotten here is that for the cars that are not designed for the low limit, more brake action will be required giving off toxic dust. Again for the same reason about car design, some will be more economical and others not. On the last issue, I am lucky in having a heads up display and can see my speed and the road at the same time, but for those that can’t, then any time spent not looking at the road increases the chance of mishap. The main thing is to drive to road conditions. On some residential roads even 10mph is too fast. Blanket speed limits are not helpful, proper targeted limits are much better.
Jon
The entire “myth busting” here is built on the premise that there is stop-start traffic. Prior research has shown that a 20mph limit increases CO2 (due to increased fuel burn) by up to 35% over a 30moh limit. This also ignores the increase to journey times by presuming that all traffic is stop-start to eliminate the impact of going 66% as fast as a 30mph zone.
Factually speaking, vehicles are most efficient at around 50mph. This nonsense about stop-start traffic and 20mph limits being good is simply an excuse; it’s a way of shilling for most city governments by making the argument “most city governments haven’t properly invested in vehicle infrastructure capacity expansion or pedestrian capacity expansion even as populations have increased 50%, here’s why that inefficiency is a good thing”.
These “myth bustings” only work if we continue to think massive underinvestment in transportation capacity from our governments, even while taxes and ULEZ and congestion charges increase, is acceptable policy.
Stph
If drivers pride themselves on their skills why so resistant to gaining the skill of gracefully cruising along at 20mph? Surely it’s time for the age of prioritising cars over all other road users, pedestrians and people who live in the vicinity to come to an end. Why not leave behind the “me first” mentality and learn to share nicely?
Peter
I find that people who habitually break the speed limit usually consider themselves to be brilliant drivers who should not be constrained by such things. Imagine if this attitude was accepted for other laws. E.g. drink driving, drug driving etc.
Phil Harris
Are these people serious No way is a vehicle at its most economical at 20 mph , and the transportation costs increase with the extra time on the road ,
Obviously air pollution is increased , And there are no real figures to prove a reduction in fatalities , I believe Scotland’s figures prove that
Jaz
Actually my car uses less and less fuel the slower I go so the 50mph optimum is not correct. I wonder if people have confused the fact that going 50 is better than going 60 or 70?
I have tested this all over north Wales and under 30mph definitely gives me optimum fuel efficiency. I barely use the brakes or accelerator, just coast gently along. I love the calmness of the 20mph limit- it has my full support.
Andy
I would prefer a 15 mph to minimise congestion on narrow roads but that’s probably Utopian. I drive, cycle and walk. I have a car with an “econometer” and I can say from experience that driving gently vastly reduces fuel use.
15 mph allows for a great reduction in close passes when I’m cycling and gives me a greater chance of survival if I’m hit by a car when not driving one, That’s physics.
Chris thomas
Reducing the speed limits in towns will result in more congestion and more pollution.cars and lorries are not as efficient as these speeds.
There is the added issue of the cost to businesses I/e extra time for deliveries to be made to shops and other businesses which will effect the drivers of HGV driving hours some will not be able to complete their deliveries and return to depots within their driving hours. This might mean more HGV on the road or overnight stays for the drivers the cost of which will be passed down to consumers ,we are all complaining of the cost of living as it is this will be another blow to consumers, don’t believe me read the advice given to Welsh Government.
Trevor
Why is there so much emphasis on cyclist.
They ride on pavements and pedestrian areas the wrong way up one way street dodge around pedestrians on crossings and I have yet to see one stop at a red light
Remember a pedestrian is also something called a shopper and they are quite useful in the middle of our cities. I don’t remember seeing any 30 somethings in lycra with 3 bags of shopping and a pack of 12 bogrolls under his arms cycling home in the rain.
Aaron
Lowering the speed limit to 20 miles has caused a lot of traffic and pollution and has done no good and the higher the speed is better to reduce traffic and less pollution it is understandable to have reduced speed only in areas like school or where there are a lot of people but the rest should be higher speed then 20
John newbold
Strangely im not convinced that 20mph limits really help safety much. It may well depend on exact place but also do we know the effects of pollution of driving slower and fuel efficiency. When i was travelling in to birmingham at around 15 to 20 mph daily my car returned about 45 mpg but now i drive on A roads and motorways at 55 to 60 mph i am getting around 59 mpg.
The amount of fuel used must have a bearing on pollution. Thus 20mph zones are not a win win. They could be a means of making it safer for more people and then zapping their lungs with pm5 s and N02.
Ivor Hugh John
A few points here. My 1.6 diesel is labouring if I put it into 3rd gear. That’s a sure thing to break a diesel.
I need a larger car which can seat 5 people AND pull a trailer so a 900cc petrol citycar is useless to me. How many times would I have to stop and charge an electric car on a 500 mile journey pulling my trailer?
People who ignored the 30mph limit …. don’t suddenly care about or obey the 20 zones. I’m sick of being overtaken whilst driving at 20mph then as soon as I’m out of town, the same person is dawdling along at 40 and braking at every single corner!
Lastly, the 20mph zones are not policed to deal with speeders so why bother?
William
Alright “Ivor Hugh John”, person hiding behind a pseudonym.
So you clearly do regular journeys of 500 miles+ towing a trailer, in the UK, so I’m guessing you live in Aberdeen and go to London every day? Electric vehicles, probably not for you. Transatlantic pilots also not expected to use a Kia EV6 to transport people between Heathrow and JFK airport, so it’s a case of Use The Vehicle That Suits Your Needs.
That sounds like a hell of a slog to do with your little 1.6 diesel. Towing as well, and with 5 people inside. Wow, that might make the engine labour. and I’m sure you’re overloading the axles.
Use an appropriate gear. Revving too high in 2nd? Ah, well, use 3rd then. But that labours the engine? Sounds like nonsense, the manufacturer won’t have spaced the gears out so badly as to cause an issue.
Not many 20mph areas actually lead into those NSL areas where 40mph everywhere gang like to do 40.
Your entire comment is hyperbolic er…. hyperbolloc.
James
What a load of rubbish. What about the cyclists that you can’t overtake safely as there overtaking you running read lights, sitting in the middle of the road and scooters is a whole different issue. I think rather than punish the motorists put more barriers up to stop people just walking out due to the incompetence of understanding cars use a road to move and its dangerous use a crossing thats what there for
James
What a load of rubbish. What about the cyclists that you can’t overtake safely as there overtaking you running red lights, sitting in the middle of the road and scooters is a whole different issue. I think rather than punish the motorists put more barriers up to stop people just walking out due to the incompetence of understanding cars use a road to move and its dangerous use a crossing thats what there for
Ian Rogers
I see that there is no mention of increased pollution from driving at lower speeds, when engines are less efficient. I have seen research which shows that pollution increases in 20 m.p.h. zones for the above reason combined with the fact that at slow speeds it takes longer, obviously, to cover a given distance. So a double whammy, so to speak.
As for the reduced concentration when driving at lower speeds, there is research which shows this to be true!
I used to live in a small town in the Dales where the speed limit was reduced to 20 m.p.h. and have two relevant observations. Firstly, the people who regularly break the limit are bike riders! I have yet to hear of any of them being done for speeding. Secondly, the reduced speed limit makes pedestrians very careless. I have seen many who just step into the road without looking and have lost count of the number of near misses and accidents caused as a result.
The person who made the point about reduced speed limits causing longer journeys is spot on! The consequent frustration should not be overlooked. What about delivery vans, busses, H.G.V.s and so on in these areas? Surprisingly, no mention of the effect of reducing speed limits on them! Taking busses as an example, services in some areas are already slow. As someone who is reliant on busses at times I do not want this to get worse. This is all contrary to all we hear about wanting more people to use public transport.
So, I would challenge the so-called myths given above. The issues surrounding reduced speed limits are many and complex, and some of the suggestions in this article are not helpful, I would suggest.
And… who will be monitoring these limits? The police have said they don’t have the manpower.
William
a) bikes are not legally capable of breaking the speed limit. There is no speed limit for bikes. Tough.
b) I literally drove from Leicestershire to Central London today, and back. I am one of those delivery van drivers you are concerned about. 20mph zones are great – they need less concentration, which is GREAT when you’ve got an 8 hour driving day, I’m home fresh and happy to read stupid comments online. They barely increase my journey time – 5 hours of my day are spent on the motorway and dual carriage even before I get into London, the difference between doing 10 and 20 miles of my driving with 30 or 20mph speed limits is… basically inconsequential. The vast quantity of private cars on the roads was the bigger delay. If people would use buses when appropriate, it would have saved me an actual significant amount of time. The Strand was RAMMED.
W
The 20mph limit isn’t really the main issue in London, it’s the LTNs, the 3 or 2 lane roads becoming only 1 lane for cars/vans, and the unchanged (in)frequency of the traffic lights and unregulated roadworks. Millions has been spent on improving for cyclists, but making it tougher for cars. I know that’s the aim (the thinking is reducing cars and pollution) but does it? Since 20mph limit (and many cameras to enforce), combined with all the above and terrible traffic light bottlenecks, journey times are 3x, 4x, or more. Much of that is sitting in traffic, mostly with engines running, bellowing out more pollution. So has it really reduced pollution overall? I’d much rather have it 30mph and more well thought out cycle infrastructure, and bring back teaching kids how to cross the road. Green Cross Code used to be a big thing in primary schools, now it’s not. Instead kids now have school streets so they hardly ever look for cars when crossing now! The injury power of cars at 30mph was a massive driver for 20mph limits but I just feel its all back to front. We don’t need 20mph everywhere, especially if cyclists are separate from cars.
Jim Whittaker
It’s not difficult to maintain 20mph, and in Scotland that is the speed limit in all villages, something that would benefit the rest of the UK. Also modern vehicles have adaptable cruise control, so you can set your speed to 20mph and forget about it, indeed my new car can maintain 20mph on a steep downward slope because of its regenerative braking function in the gearbox. I have a Renault Arkana e-Tech Hybrid with automatic gearbox, as hybrids are now, but the drive has 2 settings, D and B. D is the normal drive setting on automatics and offers regeneration on deceleration and braking. B is for maximum regenerative braking and is what I use all the time, as you’re mostly just using the accelerator to control your speed with braking happening automatically.
I’m all for 20mph limits on all high streets and through villages, it’s safer for pedestrians, more economical and if you collide with another vehicle, the damage is substantially less.
Tim
As acceleration back to the limit is a major source of pollution, why not do away with speed humps? and why not sequence traffic lights to create a green wave?
Michael Hawks
I work in Cardiff which is mostly 20 and fully agree with it but when will the enforcement authorities get to grip with the cyclist and e scooter riders who overtake me, ride straight through red lights and ride on the pavements. It seems all the onus and guilt is on the car driver
Steve
Are cyclists going to stick to 20 mph as well.
Fred
I have never read so much tripe in a single article in my life. Yes there is a place for 20mph by schools, parks hospitals etc but most roads are fine at 30. Its just the snowflakes are going to win yet again. Bring back the stiff upper lip
Richard
I drive a 1.0l car and I’m nearly stalling in 2nd gear cause revs are so low , third gear defo gonna stall…I think they should only have 20 limits near school hospitals etc 30 was fine for years untill wet do gooders got involved. It makes driving more stressful as well and so boring it’s easier to get distracted amongst the other hazards of mopeds flying about the place cyclists at night with no lights on is common and electric bikes that do about 40mph.,. You got your priorities back to front and mixed up. Its always blame the driver about everything when cyclist’s are often menaces but they don’t get ticket for doing over 20 and they do lot of damage if hit someone and no impact protection of a modern car. Prob more damage done being hit by a cyclist doing 30mph ……..joke
Alan Duckworth
Pure propaganda as are the majority of comments.
Our pointless 20mph zone has led to an increase in accidents through drivers lack of attention, a common occurrence apparently but let’s not talk about that eh ?
Leon
Hello
On my car cruise control don’t work under 22mph. Will be more speed tickets in post
Thank you
.ade
What a load of rubbish. Schools and hospitals yes bu tto put a 20mph on a road for no reason is ridiculous. In my mind it will cause more accidents where if your going 20mph the impatient drives will cause accident trying to get around you. It will take forever to get anywhere.
Ryan
Whilst I don’t object to 20 mph speed limits at all I do disagree with a large portion of this article. My 2018 audi with DSG /auto will change down a gear and rev higher when I slow from 30 to 20 no matter if it is in Efficiency mode or Sport mode. Therefore it uses more fuel and produces more pollutants per distance than at 30mph.
I also agree that driving at 20ph does require a greater level of concentration than at 30mph. Many modern vehicles with eco features such as automatic coasting do not have the same level of throttle control at 20mph that they do at 30mph. However this is not necessary a bad thing, it keeps the driver more alert.
Jeff
I’d far rather a 20mph speed limit than a 30 with speed humps everywhere.
David
What a load of rubbish. 20mph are just another attack on drivers with raising costs it is ridiculous. Needs to be called out for what it is (poor quality research sponsored by those with an agenda).
Cars are so much safer these days yet we still have speed limits from “back in the day”. It’s the old fossils have haven’t kept up that moan. Speed limits should be increased on some roads and motorways should go to 80mph (70mph on dual carriageways). Bad driving causes accidents not speed.
Time dinosaurs got out their cars if they can’t keep up. It’s also time parents actually looked after their children rather than looking at their phones.
It is about shifting ‘blame’ onto the driver all the time.
Alan
If we are talking about what is best for the environment surely 60mph is best. That’s when engines are most fuel efficient. I never go faster than 60 now and my mpg is up around 7 to 10.
MarkR
Is this Luddites anonymous?
Andy
20mph is for air quality and hospital admissions. , polution doesnt care if you believe it or not, itll make you ill either way, lower speeds means less polution and fewer serious accidents are a good thing
roger hughes
Very surprised more cyclists are not killed especially on rural roads. The increase in the amount of riders blocking Small roads even quite a few A roads when no pavement is possible councils are trying to bring in cycle lanes , totally idiotic when it is half an hour to get to town reduction of speed fetch a lot of tired drivers getting home from work.
JimW
How long do people spend driving in a 20 zone anyway? I live around four miles from the city centre, and if I were to drive in there is a mix of 20 and 30 zones. I can be there in about 15-20 minutes on my bike, or 20-25 minutes on the bus. If I were to drive at a 30mph speed limit it would take me 8 minutes, at a 20mph speed limit it would take 12 minutes, that assumes no traffic, stopping for give ways or red lights; which is basically just rounding.
If you are driving in a big city then whatever the posted speed limit is you aren’t going to be travelling very fast due to the traffic; it’s not like we are suggesting a 20mph limit on motorways? The majority of your travel will be on faster roads and then you just need to go a bit slower near your destination. I really don’t understand what the fuss is, for an average journey you are going to add just a few minutes and drastically reduce the risk of inflicting death or serious injury on non-motorists who are likely to be residents of the area you are passing through.
Iain Dawson
I don’t understand the problem with using lower gears. Gears are there for a reason, just use whichever one is most appropriate for the speed and load at the time. My “classic” car will quite happily run at 20mph in 3rd, the modern turbodiesel will not so I use 2nd. It’s really not a problem.
Those of us with decades of familiarity with existing limits will take some time to adjust to the 20mph limit. (Oddly, the same complaint isn’t raised whenever an increase to the motorway limit is mentioned but learning is learning!). I had to learn to use power steering, I had to learn to use ABS and now I have to learn drive on feel at 20mph. I’m sure I’ll cope.
James Telfer
As noted in the article, the key reason for pollution is the stop/start nature of city driving. There’s a very simple solution here no one seems to mention – if we’re going to lower limits to 20mph, we should also be SCRAPPING most of the traffic lights causing the stoppages. Replace with roundabouts at junctions and road users will determine when they can proceed. Traffic lights turn people into automatons.
As seen on numerous videos, India has far less urban traffic lights yet drivers manage to avoid collisions in traffic FAR denser than the UK. Or are we somehow less competent road users than Indians, eh?
Leonard Hilton
You eyes should never be glued to the speedometer.
If you hit a pedestrian at 30mph there’s an 80% chance they will be killed, hit a pedestrian at 20mph there’s an 80% they will live.
I rest my case.
Raf
Here is my comment. I believe that 20 mph speed limit is introduced to make money and save money from filling pot holes and they are on the increase. Your car wheel or tyre etc is more likely to suffer damage at 30 from pot holes etc. At 20 unlikely any damage from pot holes. And btw if there is damage the council would probably argue that prove you were doing 20 lol. We been traveling 30 for many many years and it’s near impossible to maintain lower speeds and with the stupid buses lanes cycle lanes mopeds and scooters they are going faster than cars and there is no road space. To do all this properly you need to have wider roads. It’s all a failure in my eyes.
Kassim
Well speed kills but it doesn’t specify what speed kills. Anyway, why is there a mix of 20 speed sign and road bumps on the same stretch of a street or road? How much slower should one have to do to avoid an accident when going through the stretch?
The ETA
Where speeds are reduced to a maximum of 20mph in built-up areas a decline in casualties of more than 40% will occur.
SG
There is a good point though about the speedo. Roads were designed to encourage driving at speeds up to 30 mph. Just changing the signage to 20 is a good move but it’s not enough, the environment also needs to be engineered to slow down traffic. Techniques such as build outs, increased tree cover and frequent road material changes naturally slow drivers down without them needing to think about their speed.
Jackson
No driver worth their salt zealously follows a limit and turns themself in if they go a smidge over the limit, which in my experience has been set far too low, particularly on motorways.
As a sim racer, I’m able to understand the capabilities and consequences of driving at speed in low tech and high tech vehicles, and in my experience, no one should be forced to drive 20 or slower. The braking capabilities are far more powerful than when a vehicle in the 50s set a standard by someone who’d just got their license.
Britains roads are too slow, too oppressive, and not enough freedom of speed is given to drivers who are more than capable of handling it.
#Raisethelimit
Also, as far as pollution goes, can you use that defence for electric cars?
The ETA
Stick to the Playstation – you’re less of a danger there
Dave
As a long time player of Microsoft’s FlightSim, I am often frustrated by how long it takes to get airborne when going on holiday. The pilot follows all these stupid rules and hangs about before taxiing, I just push the throttles and go and nobody has been hurt yet!
Kris
Does not really apply to motorcycles, especially with the lean running engine to meet the EURO4/5 norm. If you go slow at low revs in 2nd gear, you’re doing around 25mph and the engine struggles a bit with torque. The optimal speed is around 30mph if you keep the stock sprockets. To be honest, whenever I follow cops on bikes in London, they don’t ride below the speed limit. It’s also rather tough to constantly monitor the speed, especially when approaching the lights with speed cameras and boxed junctions – on one hand, you want to keep your eyes peeled for the idiots crossing the road on red while looking at the phones, joggers, people who try to run between the slow moving cars and busses, numpties changing lanes without indicating, on the other hand, you want to ensure that you’re under the speed limit and also won’t get caught in the box when the lights are changing. I personally complained for the 20mph limits 10 years ago, as part of cycling groups, but what we got is nonsense. 20mph zones where there’s no houses or shops, for example. Nuisance.
Kris
I meant “campaigned” not complained. Only started complaining
Peter
Your assumption that every one drives a 1000cc car in town is flawed, I drive a 1700 cc, automatic diesel car that is supposed to pollute , but it is ULEZ compliant and i live in an area where it is hilly, and have been living in a 20 mph trial area in Buckley for the past 8 months.
My mileage per gallon has gone from 40 mpg down to 29 mpg, the car very rarely gets out of second gear when going down or uphill and because it is a diesel car twice in the past six months the particulate filter has become blocked and i have had to pay £150.00 both times to get it cleaned. As the particulate filter begins to block the exhaust progressively begins to emit more noxious fumes.
Your figures are flawed, as any car mechanic would tell you. and before you get on your high horse there are more automatic cars sold from new nowadays than manual transmission.
The ETA
Not sure we suggested everybody drives a one-litre car – we’re simply addressing the fallacy that small-engined cars struggle to cope with low speeds in higher gears. You mention that our figures are flawed – which ones in particular?
Peter Lane
I think only automatic cars will cope with this new speed limit well. Some people will think if they let their engine rumble along below 2000 revs per minute, on a manual transmission car, they are saving the planet but I am sure it will produce more emissions.
Light aircraft engines have be kept above a certain speed when hanging around on airfields or the spark-plugs soot up and then the engine has to have the insides revved out of them, to clear the soot out of the cylinders, or the balance between the dual ignition system that they have for safety reasons is no longer equal.
In a car nobody can tell what it is doing pollution wise at any particular time. There will always be someone who will say with all the wonderful electronics in cars these days this will not happen and I know small aircraft engine technology is back in the 1920s but I am suspicious of the affect very low speeds will have on pollution.
It will depend on the who is driving and for most people what goes on in a cars engine is “Black Magic”.
Roger Ward
It’s right when you say that accelerating to 30mph uses more fuel than to 20mph. What you conveniently don’t mention is that to 30mph a car travels a greater distance than to 20mph.
The ETA
There are many factors that affect fuel efficiency on urban and suburban roads which, while interesting, risk distracting from the main purpose of 20mph limits – namely to reduce the number of deaths and serious injuries on our roads. An added bonus is that lower speeds help encourage more cycling and walking.
Richard
Even if it is more fuel efficient which I question, by definition it will take 50% longer to get to your destination, 1 hour at 30 is 1hr 30 at 20… which will certainly not be a saving on labour costs with minimum wages rising 10% per anum….
Would this also mean an increase in delivery trucks on the road as things have to be delivered in a timely manor and urban areas taking c. 50% longer to get anywhere…
Also with delivery drivers who have to schedule breaks every certain amount of time behind the wheel this certainly will add to the cost of living crisis unnecessarily
The ETA
If you were driving on a test track, you’re absolutely right to say that driving slower would make journey times longer. However, in the real world, journey times on urban and suburban roads are affected to such an extent by junctions, traffic lights and congestion that reducing the speed limit from 30 to 20 has a marginal effect. In some cases it can even reduce journey times by increasing traffic flow.